Legislature(1999 - 2000)

02/09/2000 08:10 AM House URS

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
        HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON UTILITY RESTRUCTURING                                                                        
                        February 9, 2000                                                                                        
                            8:10 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bill Hudson, Chairman                                                                                            
Representative John Cowdery, Vice Chairman                                                                                      
Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                        
Representative Brian Porter                                                                                                     
Representative John Davies                                                                                                      
Representative Ethan Berkowitz                                                                                                  
Representative Joe Green (alternate)                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
POWER COST EQUALIZATION                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 323                                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating   to  the  employment  of   hearing  examiners,                                                              
arbitrators,  and  mediators  by   the  Regulatory  Commission  of                                                              
Alaska; repealing  a requirement that the principal  office of the                                                              
Alaska  Oil  and Gas  Conservation  Commission  move to  the  same                                                              
location as the  principal office of the Regulatory  Commission of                                                              
Alaska; relating  to the sharing of record-keeping  facilities and                                                              
clerical  staff  by the  two  commissions;  and providing  for  an                                                              
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ERIC YOULD, Executive Director                                                                                                  
Alaska Rural Electric Cooperative Association                                                                                   
703 West Tudor                                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                                                                         
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Provided  a  presentation  on  power  cost                                                              
equalization (PCE).                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JOE GRIFFITH, CFO                                                                                                               
Chugach Electric Association, Inc., and                                                                                         
Member, PCE Blue Ribbon Committee                                                                                               
5601 Minnesota Drive                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered information about PCE.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN RITCHIE, Executive Director                                                                                               
Alaska Municipal League and                                                                                                     
Member, Denali Commission                                                                                                       
217 Second Street, Suite 220                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Discussed  the Denali  Commission's  view as                                                              
well as AML's view regarding PCE.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
RANDY SIMMONS, Executive Director                                                                                               
Alaska Industrial Development & Export Authority (AIDEA)/                                                                       
Alaska Energy Authority (AEA);                                                                                                  
Member, PCE Blue Ribbon Committee                                                                                               
480 West Tudor Road                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                                                                         
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Discussed  PCE and  the  statewide  energy                                                              
study.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-2, SIDE A                                                                                                               
Number 0002                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  BILL  HUDSON  called  the  House  Special  Committee  on                                                              
Utility  Restructuring meeting  to  order at  8:10  a.m.   Members                                                              
present  at  the  call  to  order   were  Representatives  Hudson,                                                              
Cowdery,  Kott,  Davies,  Green  and  Berkowitz.    Representative                                                              
Porter  arrived  as  the  meeting   was  in  progress.    Also  in                                                              
attendance were Representatives Kapsner and Morgan.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Power Cost Equalization                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0106                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON  announced that  the committee  would take  up the                                                              
issue of  power cost equalization (PCE).   He noted that  there is                                                              
quite a bit of  action going on with the PCE issue.   Although PCE                                                              
is an expense  factor that must be  dealt with one way  or another                                                              
in the next  budget, that falls  under the purview of  the Finance                                                              
Committee  and therefore  will  not be  addressed  by the  current                                                              
committee.   Rather, this  committee will attempt  to deal  with a                                                              
couple of  concepts such  as the universal  service concept.   The                                                              
committee  will also receive  some input  regarding other  aspects                                                              
that  could,  hopefully,  lead  to  reducing  the  cost  of  power                                                              
generation in  rural Alaska.  Referring  to the CH2M  Hill report,                                                              
Chairman  Hudson indicated  he interprets  that as  follows:   Mr.                                                              
Rabago of CH2M Hill was essentially  suggesting that the committee                                                              
concentrate on  the high cost of  power in the rural parts  of the                                                              
state.   Therefore,  the committee  will begin  by reviewing  that                                                              
issue.   He  announced  that first  the  committee  would hear  an                                                              
overview and  report on the status  of this particular  issue from                                                              
Eric Yould.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0267                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ERIC YOULD, Executive Director, Alaska  Rural Electric Cooperative                                                              
Association  (ARECA), informed  the  committee that  ARECA is  the                                                              
trade association that represents  the utility industry in Alaska.                                                              
He  noted  that  ARECA's members  collectively  provide  about  90                                                              
percent of  the electricity throughout  the state.  He  also noted                                                              
that ARECA's  membership ranges  from the  biggest utility  in the                                                              
Railbelt to some of the smaller utilities in rural Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD offered some perspective,  suggesting that the committee                                                              
follow along on the hard copy of  the presentation entitled "Power                                                              
Cost Equalization;  Electricity Powers  Healthy Communities."   He                                                              
referred  to page 2  and commented  that the  United States  has a                                                              
totally  interconnected  system.   There  are  transmission  lines                                                              
throughout the  country, and there  is almost no community  in the                                                              
Lower 48  that is  not interconnected  in some  way.  This  allows                                                              
communities to share in economic  power from one geographic sector                                                              
to another.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD  continued with  page 2 of  the presentation.   He noted                                                              
that  Alaska is  superimposed on  the  map of  the United  States.                                                              
Although Alaska  stretches from the northern borders  of Minnesota                                                              
and Canada down to the Atlantic Ocean  at Georgia and then all the                                                              
way  out to  the  Pacific  Ocean  in California,  Alaska's  entire                                                              
infrastructure  - that  is, the  transmission line  system -  goes                                                              
from the middle of Iowa down to the middle of Missouri.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD  pointed out  that  the  job  of the  electric  utility                                                              
industry  [in  Alaska]  has been  to  provide  cost-effective  and                                                              
reliable electricity  throughout the state.  Essentially  in place                                                              
since  the  early  1980s,  PCE  has   been  integral  in  bringing                                                              
affordable and reliable electricity  to Alaska.  Without PCE, many                                                              
of the amenities  Alaska enjoys, certainly in  rural Alaska, would                                                              
not be possible.   Furthermore, Alaska would not  have some of the                                                              
economic development and municipal  facilities without PCE because                                                              
many  of the  utilities would  not  exist.   He acknowledged  that                                                              
there would  be Honda generators,  but before  PCE not all  of the                                                              
villages had  electricity, and those  that did had  very expensive                                                              
electricity.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0492                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD  directed  attention to  page 3 of  the presentation,  a                                                              
summary of  the history of  PCE.  The program  began in 1980  as a                                                              
temporary  program  referred  to  as  the  Power  Production  Cost                                                              
Assistance Program.   That program  was in response to  the Energy                                                              
Program for Alaska.  Mr. Yould explained  that in the early 1980s,                                                              
the state  placed much  money into  renewable energy projects  for                                                              
the  entire state.   The  cornerstone was  the Susitna  Hydropower                                                              
Project; there  were a number of  other projects such as  the Four                                                              
Dam  Pool,  Bradley Lake  and  the  Anchorage-Fairbanks  Intertie.                                                              
Given that  Alaska would  have largely  funded those projects,  it                                                              
was believed that  those projects would be the  financial intertie                                                              
to the rest of the state and thus  create a postage stamp rate for                                                              
the rest  of the state.  Until  those projects could  come online,                                                              
the  state  wanted  an  interim  solution,  which  was  the  Power                                                              
Production  Cost Assistance Program.   He  commented that,  at the                                                              
time, he testified in favor of that program.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD  explained that  as the  cost of  oil increased  and the                                                              
economics  of the  Susitna  Hydropower  Project  declined and  the                                                              
amount of  money to  the state decreased,  the Energy  Program for                                                              
Alaska  ended.    However,  the need  in  rural  Alaska  remained.                                                              
Therefore, in  1984 the legislature institutionalized  the program                                                              
and  put  it  in  place  for the  long  term  as  the  Power  Cost                                                              
Equalization  Program.  The  PCE program  was largely funded  with                                                              
general funds  (GF) until  1993, when  the legislature  divided up                                                              
money in  the Railbelt energy fund  for interties in  the Railbelt                                                              
[and] Southeastern Alaska.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD noted  that  at the  same time,  $63  million was  made                                                              
available for  the PCE  program; a  policy statement was  included                                                              
which said  that it was the  legislature's intent to fund  the PCE                                                              
program for the next 20 years, through  the year 2013.  Obviously,                                                              
this  was subject  to  appropriation.   In  1999  the energy  fund                                                              
available for PCE  was dry, and the legislature  decided to review                                                              
the program and re-tailor it to make  it more cost-efficient.  The                                                              
legislature actually passed legislation last year, SB 157.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD pointed out that SB 157  significantly changed the [PCE]                                                              
program.   It raised the floor  for eligibility from 9.5  cents to                                                              
12 cents.   The legislation reduced  the amount of  kilowatt hours                                                              
(kWh) eligible  for the PCE program  from 700 kWh to 500  kWh.  It                                                              
also  eliminated   commercial  consumers  and  schools   from  the                                                              
program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0728                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ commented that  the state  experienced a                                                              
lot of  savings when  schools were  included in  the program.   He                                                              
asked  whether  there  are  any  cost  estimates  with  regard  to                                                              
excluding the state [schools] from the program?                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD  replied that  the schools were  receiving the  same 700                                                              
kWh per  month as  residents.   Therefore,  it was  not much  of a                                                              
program  for the  schools.   By  eliminating  the schools,  around                                                              
$200,000  was   eliminated  from   the  program.     Although  the                                                              
commercial consumers  were given  the same 700  kWh per  month, he                                                              
believed that the commercial consumers were hit a little harder.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD  returned to  the  presentation.   Realizing  that  the                                                              
funding    had  to  be  appropriated   annually,  the  legislature                                                              
attempted  to identify  funding sources  for the  program for  the                                                              
long term.  Basically, the legislature  included 60 percent of the                                                              
revenue from  the Four Dam  Pool, about  $6 million per  year, and                                                              
allocated future funds from the National  Petroleum Reserve-Alaska                                                              
(NPR-A) lease  sale.   The funds  from the  NPR-A lease  sale have                                                              
turned out  to be an  empty bucket, at  least for PCE;  it appears                                                              
that money is  coming into the program, but there  are other calls                                                              
on the  money before  any is available  for PCE.   He agreed  with                                                              
Chairman  Hudson  that, effectively,  there  is  no money  in  the                                                              
bucket.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD  directed the committee  to page 5 of  the presentation,                                                              
which  illustrated the  upshot of  the changes  encompassed in  SB
157.  The  cost of the totally  funded program would be  about $16                                                              
million as opposed to the cost of  the program before the changes,                                                              
which was approximately $22 million.   He commented that as energy                                                              
demands  in rural Alaska  increase,  as a result  of new  services                                                              
such as water and sewer, the program  itself will probably grow as                                                              
well.  With regard to whether there  is really a need for PCE, Mr.                                                              
Yould emphasized that the answer is yes.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD  turned attention to page  6 of the  presentation, which                                                              
notes that  the average  cost of  electricity  in urban Alaska  is                                                              
roughly 9.5  cents per  kWh.   He pointed  out, however,  that the                                                              
average cost  of electricity  in the PCE  communities is  42 cents                                                              
per kWh,  more than four times  the average cost in  urban Alaska.                                                              
That difference  can be  explained because  in the Anchorage  area                                                              
there is  very inexpensive natural  gas, there is a  large economy                                                              
of  scale,  and there  is  an  interconnected  system.   In  rural                                                              
Alaska, on the other hand, the preponderance  of electricity comes                                                              
from  expensive diesel  generation; furthermore,  the systems  are                                                              
small,  there is  no economy  of scale,  and the  systems are  not                                                              
interconnected.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD directed  attention to page 7, which  lists energy rates                                                              
for  various rural  communities as  compared to  Anchorage.   That                                                              
list  demonstrates  the  concept  of  economy  of  scale  and  how                                                              
spreading the  costs over a  larger population allows  for cheaper                                                              
power.  Still, PCE does not fully equalize.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD explained  that the  concept of  PCE is  that those  in                                                              
rural Alaska would receive the same  rate as those in urban areas.                                                              
However,  the  PCE  formula  results  in an  average  cost  of  21                                                              
cents/kWh  in PCE  communities, while  the Anchorage  area has  an                                                              
average cost of  9.5 cents/kWh.  Therefore, PCE  does not decrease                                                              
the cost  of power to  the level that  is enjoyed in  urban areas.                                                              
With regard  to the notion  that PCE  is a disincentive  to energy                                                              
conservation,  he  directed  the   committee  to  page  9  of  the                                                              
presentation.   Page  9 points out  that the  urban areas  consume                                                              
roughly 688  kWh/month, while the  consumption in rural  Alaska is                                                              
326 kWh/month.  "Even with PCE, the  cost of electricity is so far                                                              
beyond the  point of elasticity that  there is a  strong incentive                                                              
to energy conservation."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD turned  to  the issue  of  whether  rural families  can                                                              
afford  energy  costs,  which  he  outlined  on  page  10  of  the                                                              
presentation.   He pointed out  that the typical  household income                                                              
in urban  Alaska is  roughly twice that  of the typical  household                                                              
income in rural Alaska.  Therefore,  not only is the cost of power                                                              
greater in rural Alaska, but those  in rural Alaska do not have as                                                              
much disposable  income  to pay for  the power.   Furthermore,  he                                                              
understood that  18 percent of the  families in rural  Alaska fall                                                              
below  the poverty  line,  and many  of the  elders  are on  fixed                                                              
incomes.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD  asked, "Yet, how has  the utility industry  itself done                                                              
over the years with power cost equalization?"   One might conclude                                                              
that with PCE there  is no incentive to reduce the  cost of power,                                                              
he  said.   However,  the graph  on page  11  of the  presentation                                                              
illustrates that in  1978, before PCE, the cost  of electricity in                                                              
the Alaska Village Electric Cooperative  (AVEC) system was some 35                                                              
cents/kWh.   He noted  that AVEC  serves some  51 villages.   More                                                              
than 20 years later, the cost of  power is only 42 cents/kWh; that                                                              
is in nominal dollars.   If the cost of inflation  is factored in,                                                              
the cost of electricity in the AVEC  villages has dropped by half.                                                              
He emphasized  that  to be a  very significant  figure because  it                                                              
illustrates that the  utilities are working very hard  to keep the                                                              
cost of  electricity  down.  However,  given the  fact that  rural                                                              
Alaska remains  a diesel generation  economy, is a good  job being                                                              
done of utilizing the scarce fuel out there?                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD  noted that  the graph  on page  12 illustrates  that in                                                              
1975 the  efficiency was roughly 6  kWh per gallon of  diesel fuel                                                              
burned in rural  Alaska.  Twenty years later, rural  Alaska has an                                                              
efficiency  of   12  kWh  per   gallon  of  diesel   fuel  burned.                                                              
Therefore,  the  efficiency  of  the  units  has  increased.    He                                                              
mentioned that due  to computer technology, some  villages in AVEC                                                              
are  experiencing efficiency  as  high  as 16  kWh  per gallon  of                                                              
diesel fuel burned.  He reiterated  that the utilities have done a                                                              
good job,  during PCE, in  increasing efficiency and  reducing the                                                              
cost  of power,  and yet rural  costs  are four times  as high  as                                                              
those in the Railbelt area.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1213                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ related his  understanding that  if some                                                              
rural communities are receiving 16  [kWh per gallon of diesel fuel                                                              
burned]  and the  average is  12 [kWh  per gallon  of diesel  fuel                                                              
burned], then some  communities fall below the average.   He asked                                                              
what could be done to bring those communities up to the average.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD replied, "The answer partially  is cost of money.  Is it                                                              
economic to  go in and  ... retrofit  an existing diesel  [system]                                                              
with fuel  injected computer-control  technology?   It may  not be                                                              
economic to do it."   He indicated that these must  be reviewed on                                                              
a  case-by-case   basis.    Additionally,   the  PCE   program  as                                                              
administered  by   the  Regulatory  Commission  of   Alaska  (RCA)                                                              
requires  a certain level  of efficiency  or the  full PCE  is not                                                              
received.   That element of the  program creates an  incentive for                                                              
the communities to actually get the  efficiency rate up to 16 [kWh                                                              
per gallon of diesel fuel burned].                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked whether there  are ongoing evaluations to do                                                              
that cost analysis.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD replied  yes.  He noted  that it is a  responsibility of                                                              
the RCA, which is required to review the efficiencies.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN noted  that  in the  urban  areas there  are                                                              
often penalties  for  [use during  times of] peak  demand.   Would                                                              
such a  disincentive help  further the  efficiencies in  the rural                                                              
areas?                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD commented,  "Certainly, more  pain is  going to  help."                                                              
However, he pointed  out, the rural areas are so  far beyond price                                                              
elasticity that peak demands will not be as great a factor.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN said he  was thinking  along the  lines that                                                              
schools  alternate starting  and  finishing times.   Perhaps,  the                                                              
same concept could be utilized in rural areas.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD pointed  out that demand charges are  primarily aimed at                                                              
capacity to  reduce capital  costs.  In  a small village  with one                                                              
diesel generator, there would not  be so much of a savings by load                                                              
management because the village would  still be generating off that                                                              
one generator.   However, he acknowledged that if  that village is                                                              
generating more electricity, it may  be more efficient than on the                                                              
lower end  of the efficiency curve.   Although the  demand charges                                                              
in  rural  Alaska are  valuable,  he  was  not sure  the  economic                                                              
incentive would be that great.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1383                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD turned  attention  to the  notion  that communities  in                                                              
rural Alaska  should look  at alternatives  rather than  continued                                                              
use of  PCE.  Although  Mr. Yould agreed  with that notion,  as do                                                              
the  utilities,  he  emphasized that  the  alternatives  are  very                                                              
expensive.  He pointed out that [Alaska]  has some of the greatest                                                              
reserves of anywhere in the U.S.  - on a percentage basis - of the                                                              
following  resources:   hydro[electric], natural  gas, oil,  wind,                                                              
biomass, coal, solar and geothermal.   The coal reserves have been                                                              
estimated  to be  60 percent  of the  total reserves  in the  U.S.                                                              
Furthermore,  Alaska's hydro[electric]  potential is one-third  of                                                              
the untapped hydro[electric] potential  in the U.S.  He commented,                                                              
"We're like the  ancient mariner:  Water, water  everywhere, nor a                                                              
single  drop  to  drink."    He  likened  it  to  Alaska's  energy                                                              
situation  because   it  is  very   expensive  to   develop  these                                                              
[alternative energy] systems, primarily in rural Alaska.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD noted  that he  had attempted  to outline  some of  the                                                              
capital  costs   associated  with   some  of  the   aforementioned                                                              
alternatives.   For example, a  diesel plant costs  roughly $1,000                                                              
per kW,  while a  wind plant  that was  reviewed for placement  on                                                              
Prince of Wales  [Island] costs roughly $10,000 per  kW.  He noted                                                              
that  hydroelectric power  is site-dependent.   One  hydroelectric                                                              
project being reviewed at Old Harbor  costs roughly $5,000 per kW.                                                              
He commented  that hydroelectric power  is firm energy,  while the                                                              
wind power is not only expensive  but also requires diesel fuel as                                                              
backup.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD   said  micro-turbines   are  also  a   very  expensive                                                              
alternative.    He recalled  committee  discussion  at a  previous                                                              
hearing that  mentioned fuel  cells as  an alternative.   Although                                                              
fuel cells  may be  an answer  in the  future, there are  problems                                                              
now.  First,  fuel cells are  very expensive, with a  high capital                                                              
cost.    Second, there  are  no  diesel  "feed stock"  fuel  cells                                                              
commercially  available at this  time.   Virtually all  fuel cells                                                              
use natural  gas as the feed  stock.  Furthermore,  moving propane                                                              
or  natural gas  through rural  Alaska  could be  difficult.   The                                                              
alternative  of methane  gas also  has problems.   First, the  gas                                                              
must be found,  and the cost of  drilling is $1 million  per hole;                                                              
who  would   pay  for  that?     Therefore,  the  cost   of  these                                                              
alternatives  is  the  disincentive   for  bringing  them  online.                                                              
Still, the utilities are looking for alternatives.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  asked  whether a  gas-fired  or  coal-fired                                                              
plant would be similar to diesel.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD  explained  that some  of  the  simple-cycle  gas-fired                                                              
plants are  very inexpensive.   He estimated  the capital  cost of                                                              
these simple-cycle gas-fired plants  to be around $500 per kW.  He                                                              
agreed with Representative Green  that a coal-fired plant would be                                                              
much higher  because it would  probably cost around  $1,500-$2,000                                                              
per kW.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1571                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  pointed to the chart that  refers to the                                                              
capital  costs for  these alternatives  and  asked if  there is  a                                                              
comparable chart for operating costs.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD said  he does not have that information,  but he offered                                                              
to provide  it.  He  noted that there  is not a direct  comparison                                                              
between each  alternative.  For  instance, the hydropower  project                                                              
is firm generation.   He stated,  "The fuel cells, you  might say,                                                              
well,  that's  a high  capital  cost,  but  if you're  getting  80                                                              
percent efficiency out  of the fuel, then the cost  per kilowatt -                                                              
at least the  cost per Btu -  is low."  Therefore, Mr.  Yould felt                                                              
that  fuel  cells  do  have  a place  in  Alaska  in  the  future.                                                              
However, he  reiterated that  the fuel cell  would have to  be one                                                              
which could  use diesel as  a feed stock.   He mentioned  that the                                                              
University of  Alaska is working  on that through the  federal DOE                                                              
[U.S. Department of  Energy] to develop feed stock  for fuel cells                                                              
that could  be used in rural  Alaska.  He strongly  encouraged the                                                              
legislature to  support that program,  which could be part  of the                                                              
answer.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  HUDSON asked:    Is the  highest  cost  factor in  rural                                                              
Alaska the  cost of the fuel,  the equipment, the  maintenance, or                                                              
all three?                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD  clarified that  it  depends  upon  the location.    He                                                              
informed  the committee  that  virtually all  of  the villages  or                                                              
utilities  that  he  represents  fund  all of  the  capital  costs                                                              
through  loans.     Therefore,  there  is  a   large  debt-service                                                              
component.  However, many smaller  villages were able to get their                                                              
diesel generators  funded directly  by the legislature  or through                                                              
some other means; thus they do not  have any debt service.  Still,                                                              
the  cost   of  electricity  in   those  villages   remains  high.                                                              
Therefore, diesel is a large component,  but those [villages] with                                                              
debt service might have a fuel component  of no more than 20 or 30                                                              
percent of the total cost.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  HUDSON   noted  that  he   had  seen  the   deteriorated                                                              
conditions of the  storage facilities and the  extremely high cost                                                              
of fuel delivery  to the villages.  He recalled  winters when some                                                              
villages ran  out of fuel,  which had  to be airlifted  during the                                                              
emergency.  Chairman Hudson said  he hoped that could be reviewed.                                                              
Alaska is drowning in oil, and Alaska  has the capability to break                                                              
it down  into refineable  products that can  be used  elsewhere in                                                              
the world.   Therefore, he did not  believe that should  be a cost                                                              
factor that cannot be modified.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented that  past deliberations in various                                                              
committees have  brought up average  income for villages  for very                                                              
different  reasons.  Nonetheless,  some  of those average  incomes                                                              
were surprising.   He asked  if Mr. Yould  had a chance  to review                                                              
those average  incomes;  if so, would  he concur  with those  high                                                              
incomes  or are  those incomes  inflated  in some  way?   Although                                                              
Representative  Green acknowledged  the  high cost  of energy,  he                                                              
said  "it's not  a destitute  community,  and they  don't pay  the                                                              
taxes  the  urban  areas  do."   Perhaps,  there  is  a  perceived                                                              
imbalance in the presentation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD stated that he has seen  cost per community, per capita,                                                              
figures,  which are "all  over the  place."   Given that  there is                                                              
always an  average, with some falling  above and below,  he agreed                                                              
that what Representative Green had indicated is probably true.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1805                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD said,  in conclusion,  that  affordable electricity  in                                                              
rural Alaska is essential if there  is to be economic development,                                                              
healthy communities,  jobs, education and safe environments.   The                                                              
Blue Ribbon  Committee on  PCE hired the  Institute of  Social and                                                              
Economic  Research in  order to  [find out]  the value  of PCE  in                                                              
rural  Alaska.   One thing  that was  discovered was  that if  PCE                                                              
disappeared, there  would be a death  spiral.  In other  words, as                                                              
people pay the  full cost of electricity, they would  use less and                                                              
the cost would increase.  As the  cost increased, the people would                                                              
use even  less and, ultimately,  it would  be possible that  up to                                                              
half  of  the   utility  systems  in  rural  Alaska   could  fail.                                                              
Basically,  ARECA's goal is  a long-term  funding source  for PCE.                                                              
He commented that  it is impossible for any community  to have any                                                              
kind  of economic  development, if  that community  does not  know                                                              
what the cost  of electricity will  be from one year to  the next.                                                              
Certainly, businesses  will not  enter these communities,  either.                                                              
Mr.  Yould reiterated  the  need to  develop  a long-term  funding                                                              
program for PCE.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  commented  that  he  is  one  of  the  many                                                              
Alaskans who believe  the true answer to the rural  community is a                                                              
source of  energy.  He  asked whether,  in the process  of solving                                                              
this  energy problem,  there  is  a risk  of altering  [the  rural                                                              
communities].                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD  likened that  to the Pacific  Northwest, where,  due to                                                              
the development  of the Columbia  River system through  Bonneville                                                              
Power,  the  costs, per  kWh,  fell  to  mills.   That  stimulated                                                              
industry to come in and now look  what has been generated.  Still,                                                              
it   is  some   of   the   cheapest   electricity  in   the   U.S.                                                              
Philosophically,  inexpensive   and  affordable  services   are  a                                                              
cornerstone of economic development.   However, there are a number                                                              
of  other economic  developments  that  must  take place,  not  to                                                              
mention  the  resources,  desire,  and  so forth.    For  example,                                                              
Barrow, Alaska, has its own program  in place, with an energy cost                                                              
that is  somewhat affordable,  averaging  around 15 cents/kWh,  to                                                              
his recollection.  He noted that  Barrow does have an economy that                                                              
is based on extractable and affordable resources.                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  surmised, therefore, that  these communities                                                              
could be helped without ruining them.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOULD  said he  did  not  think these  communities  would  be                                                              
ruined.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2065                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MORGAN turned to the  issue of energy conservation.                                                              
He commented  that even  with conservation,  there  is a point  at                                                              
which the generator will run.  If  there is too much conservation,                                                              
then a  "dummy load"  has to  be placed  on the generator  system,                                                              
because in  order to  be efficient,  it must have  a load.   Rural                                                              
Alaska does  conserve, as exemplified  with the requests  to place                                                              
freezers  outside and  not  to plug  in  heaters for  automobiles.                                                              
However,  there are  requests over  the  television for  Anchorage                                                              
residents to plug in their automobiles.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. YOULD agreed  with Chairman Hudson that  Representative Morgan                                                              
has a  good point.   He then  pointed out  that some federal  laws                                                              
change things  as well.  For  instance, the federal  government is                                                              
attempting  to outlaw two-cycle  engines.   Two-cycle engines  are                                                              
nice  in rural  Alaska  because  they are  easy  to  start in  the                                                              
extreme  cold,  whereas  a  four-cycle  engine would  need  to  be                                                              
plugged  in.   Therefore,  electrical  demand will  increase  when                                                              
four-cycle engines  are dictated  by the Environmental  Protection                                                              
Agency (EPA).                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  HUDSON announced  that the video  presentation  would be                                                              
held  later in order  to get  to the  others who  are prepared  to                                                              
speak today.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2164                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOE  GRIFFITH,  CFO,  Chugach  Electric   Association,  Inc.,  and                                                              
Member, PCE Blue  Ribbon Committee, testified  via teleconference.                                                              
He commented  that he would  add a few  key points to  Mr. Yould's                                                              
comments.    He  directed  attention  to  page  4  of  the  Alaska                                                              
Industrial Development and Export  Authority (AIDEA) document that                                                              
the committee  had.  Mr.  Griffith emphasized  the need to  find a                                                              
stable source  of long-term funding.   The PCE program was  put in                                                              
place for a good reason, and the  legislature reemphasized that in                                                              
1993.   The PCE program  is important to  rural Alaska as  well as                                                              
the Railbelt; PCE does affect jobs  in the Railbelt, although most                                                              
people do not make that connection.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH reported  that the PCE Blue Ribbon  Committee came to                                                              
the conclusion that a universal service  fund (USF) was probably a                                                              
reasonable way  to achieve a  stable source of  long-term funding.                                                              
Telephone service has  headed in that direction recently.   If the                                                              
choice is  to not fund PCE,  he believes that the  opportunity for                                                              
"cherry picking"  the electrical service  in the rural  areas will                                                              
become  a problem  because it  already is  nearly a  problem.   He                                                              
predicted  that four-cycle  reciprocating-engine  generators  will                                                              
move in and take the best loads in  the villages and thus increase                                                              
the cost to those who need the "lifeline" electrical service.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH  said that  with regard  to whether technology  could                                                              
resolve  the problem, he  agrees that  technology could  certainly                                                              
help.  However,  that technology requires the  ability to maintain                                                              
it.    In  some  cases,  the  fuel   supplies  are  not  adequate.                                                              
Furthermore, such technology would  require a large capital outlay                                                              
to make  it happen.   He recalled the  comment about the  need for                                                              
load on generators;  he mentioned that one could  envision battery                                                              
storage devices, but those are costly.   Mr. Griffith concluded by                                                              
saying that, as a member of the Blue  Ribbon Committee, it appears                                                              
that PCE  is necessary.   He reiterated that  USF would be  a good                                                              
start  at  addressing  the  funding   for  "lifeline"  residential                                                              
[energy].                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAVIES turned to  the issue  of economy  of scale.                                                              
He noted  that last  year the legislature  decided not  to include                                                              
the schools and the "commercials"  in the PCE, which seems to head                                                              
in the wrong  direction.  He surmised that in  looking at economic                                                              
development, one would  want as many people online  as possible in                                                              
a given  location, in  order to achieve  the maximum  economies of                                                              
scale.   With respect to  USF, he asked  whether the  [Blue Ribbon                                                              
Committee]  commission   had  review   surcharges  on   bulk  fuel                                                              
distributions as opposed to retail ones.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH clarified that the surcharge  discussed was regarding                                                              
the surcharge on electrical consumption,  not on fuel for the USF.                                                              
He  said the  committee did  not  review surcharges  on bulk  fuel                                                              
distributions.  Regarding whether  the PCE should be spread across                                                              
the schools and  the commercial facilities, Mr.  Griffith recalled                                                              
that earlier  testimony  stated that the  numbers were  relatively                                                              
small because consumption was above  the PCE limits in many cases.                                                              
He commented  that anything  done to increase  usage of  power [in                                                              
the  rural areas]  - while  it costs  more  in terms  of fuel  and                                                              
direct operating  costs -  spreads the fixed  costs over  a larger                                                              
amount of  kilowatt hours.   In effect,  that can serve  to reduce                                                              
the rates.   The [Blue Ribbon]  Committee had discussed  that; the                                                              
committee had  concluded that  it made better  sense to  deal with                                                              
the residential  "lifeline" concept  than to subsidize  schools or                                                              
commercial facilities.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON  asked if any sort  of capacity analysis  was ever                                                              
performed.  Is  there more electrical capacity for  growth than is                                                              
currently being utilized?                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH said that it is almost  specific to the site.  In the                                                              
Railbelt it appears there is excessive  capacity.  However, thanks                                                              
to  the  avalanches  that  took  out  the  intertie,  that  excess                                                              
suddenly is not  excess.  Similar situations will  be found in the                                                              
villages.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-2, SIDE B                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFITH commented that with  the addition of large electrical                                                              
users, additional capacity  would have to be added.   He indicated                                                              
that  most  of the  smaller  systems  could not  accommodate  fish                                                              
processors.  However,  he noted that it is easy to  add on, if one                                                              
has enough money and the load is present.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2410                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN RITCHIE, Executive Director,  Alaska Municipal League (AML);                                                              
Member, Denali Commission, informed  the committee that the Denali                                                              
Commission was created  by Congress and has been  in operation for                                                              
almost  a  year.    The  members  of  the  Denali  Commission  are                                                              
statewide  folks; there  are no  regional  responsibilities.   The                                                              
current members  of the Denali Commission  are as follows:   Henry                                                              
Springer,   Associated   General   Contractors;   Mark   Hamilton,                                                              
University of  Alaska; Lieutenant  Governor Fran Ulmer  [Co-Chair,                                                              
acting for  Governor Knowles]; Julie  Kitka, Alaska  Federation of                                                              
Natives; Mano  Fry, American Federation  of Labor and  Congress of                                                              
Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO);  Jeff Stacer (ph) [Federal Co-                                                              
Chair];  and  Kevin Ritchie,  AML  and  the Alaska  Conference  of                                                              
Mayors.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. RITCHIE  explained  that, in  the area of  energy, the  Denali                                                              
Commission first  decided "that to fulfill its  responsibility for                                                              
economic development,  for training, for general  quality of life,                                                              
for health and  safety and rural development, the  first thing you                                                              
have to do is be  able to turn on the lights."   In that vein, the                                                              
Denali Commission  has funded off  the list of fuel  tank upgrades                                                              
and  repairs  and consolidations,  in  particular.   A  number  of                                                              
communities have a variety of oil  tanks.  Therefore, managing and                                                              
maintaining those  fuel tanks,  as well as  having the  ability to                                                              
purchase bulk  fuel, depends upon  having a central system.   That                                                              
is one effort  to lower the cost  of energy and maintain  the flow                                                              
of oil for electric  development.  The Denali  Commission has also                                                              
been working  on energy upgrades.   The commission has  found that                                                              
there really is not an energy plan  for the state.  Therefore, the                                                              
Denali Commission,  the Rural  Development Assistance  Division of                                                              
the Department  of Agriculture, and  the state Division  of Energy                                                              
are working together to draft and develop a plan.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. RITCHIE commented  that the Denali Commission  believes it can                                                              
make  some  inroads  if  there  is a  good  plan  with  regard  to                                                              
obtaining federal funding for some  of the upgrades that are being                                                              
discussed.  Some of the capital money  probably needs to be placed                                                              
into some of the areas that can benefit  from technology and lower                                                              
costs.  As  Mr. Yould stated,  it is not possible  or economically                                                              
feasible in  a substantial  number of areas.   With regard  to PCE                                                              
itself, that is not an area that  the Denali Commission can become                                                              
involved  with.    As U.S.  Senator  Ted  Stevens  cautioned,  the                                                              
commission    should   be   cautious    about   replacing    state                                                              
responsibility with federal money.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. RITCHIE  pointed out that in  order for the  Denali Commission                                                              
to remain  funded as  a federal agency,  the commission  should be                                                              
recognized by  Congress as something  that makes life  better, not                                                              
merely  lowering  the cost  of  operating  state government.    He                                                              
informed the  committee that  one of the  line items  in President                                                              
Clinton's  budget   was  the  Denali  Commission.     Furthermore,                                                              
President Clinton is  asking for a Delta Commission  that would be                                                              
similar to the Denali Commission and the Appalachia Commission.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2237                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON  inquired as  to the funding  level of  the Denali                                                              
Commission.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. RITCHIE  replied  that the funding  level  was $20 million  in                                                              
President Clinton's  budget.   However, beyond  that there  is the                                                              
interest  from  the  federal  government's  Trans-Alaska  Pipeline                                                              
System  (TAPS) fund.    That federal  TAPS  fund will  potentially                                                              
provide a continuing  source of $7  or $8 million.  He  noted that                                                              
U.S. Senator  Stevens would like  to use the Denali  Commission in                                                              
order to  focus different  types of  federal funding.   Therefore,                                                              
there is the possibility that as  the Denali Commission works with                                                              
the state  and federal  agencies  to develop an  energy plan,  the                                                              
commission will be justifiable for additions of federal funding.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. RITCHIE turned to the standpoint  of the AML and noted that he                                                              
had  provided  the committee  with  a  list of  AML's  priorities.                                                              
Power cost equalization  is one of the top six  priorities for the                                                              
AML.  The  top priority for the  AML is to work with  the state to                                                              
develop a  financial plan.   Mr. Ritchie  said, "The  bottom line,                                                              
frankly, obviously, is  to fund PCE as a need; it's  not really an                                                              
optional expense for  much of the state."  With  regard to revenue                                                              
sharing,  AML  does not  feel  that  is  optional at  this  point,                                                              
especially in light of last year's  33 percent cut in funding.  He                                                              
informed the  committee that there  are communities that  did have                                                              
full-time police service  nor a Village Public  Safety Officer nor                                                              
an  Emergency Medical  System;  however,  they do  not  now.   Mr.                                                              
Ritchie  said, "When  the public  generally says,  'Yes, we  think                                                              
cutting the state budget is good,'  they don't mean decreasing the                                                              
safety  and health and  lives of  people anywhere  in the  state."                                                              
The AML is  hoping to work with  the legislature and take  part of                                                              
the responsibility for developing some of the solutions.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. RITCHIE  turned to  Representative Green's question  regarding                                                              
the tax  equity throughout the  unorganized borough.   He informed                                                              
the  committee that  most of  the people  in unorganized  boroughs                                                              
live   in   communities   that  are   first-class   or   home-rule                                                              
communities;   those   communities   have   virtually   the   same                                                              
responsibility   as  a   borough.     First-class  and   home-rule                                                              
communities  have exactly  the same responsibility  for funding  a                                                              
school  district as  Anchorage,  Fairbanks  or Juneau;  therefore,                                                              
they are  essentially mini-boroughs.   Many  of them receive  PCE,                                                              
which is a different issue with regard to the economy.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2074                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RANDY SIMMONS,  Executive Director, Alaska Industrial  Development                                                              
& Export Authority (AIDEA) and the  Alaska Energy Authority (AEA);                                                              
Member, PCE  Blue Ribbon  Committee, testified via  teleconference                                                              
from  Anchorage.    Mr.  Simmons commented  that  Mr.  Yould,  Mr.                                                              
Griffith  and  Mr.  Ritchie  have  covered  most  of  the  topics.                                                              
However, he  said that  he would like  to provide some  additional                                                              
information and cover  PCE funding in more detail,  as well as the                                                              
statewide energy plan,  which should have an impact  on PCE in the                                                              
long term.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SIMMONS directed  the committee  to  page 3  of the  document                                                              
entitled "An Overview of PCE and  the Statewide Energy Study."  He                                                              
informed   the  committee   that  there   are  approximately   190                                                              
communities  served   through  PCE.    All  but   eight  of  those                                                              
communities  have populations  of less  than 1,000.   The  average                                                              
population  of a  PCE  community is  about  264.   With regard  to                                                              
earlier  testimony  that the  typical  cost  of  PCE power  is  42                                                              
cents/kWh,  he said  the cost ranges  from about  62 cents/kWh  in                                                              
some  communities to  below 20  cents/kWh.   That illustrates  the                                                              
large  divergence as  to  the actual  cost  [of  energy] in  those                                                              
communities before PCE.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS then turned to page 4  of the aforementioned document,                                                              
which lists  the major  items that the  PCE Blue Ribbon  Committee                                                              
recommended.   With  regard  to earlier  mention  of the  lifeline                                                              
concept, Mr.  Simmons said  that was an  important concept  to the                                                              
PCE  Blue  Ribbon Committee.    That  committee  felt that  it  is                                                              
necessary to  make affordable power  available to  those essential                                                              
electrical uses.   It was also felt  that if the cost  of power at                                                              
the margin is the full cost, then  that would provide an incentive                                                              
to the consumer  to conserve as well as to the  utility company to                                                              
reduce  the  cost.     Mr.  Simmons  reiterated   the  committee's                                                              
recommendations with regard to the funding pieces.  He stated:                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     If  you [the legislature] were  to fund the program that                                                                   
     we  [the PCE  Blue  Ribbon Committee]  had  recommended,                                                                   
     which was  a program of roughly  $14.7 million a  year -                                                                   
     50  percent  of  it  for  the  Four  Dam  Pool  and  the                                                                   
     remainder  from the  universal service  fund - it  would                                                                   
     roughly cost  the residential consumer about  $13 to $14                                                                   
     a year.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SIMMONS  acknowledged   the  concern  that,   for  the  large                                                              
commercial users,  that number could  be hundreds of  thousands of                                                              
dollars.  Therefore,  in looking at any USF it  must be determined                                                              
how to limit what  the total would be to anyone.   If it [the USF]                                                              
is  limited to  the "commercials,"  then that  would increase  the                                                              
cost a little for the residential consumer.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1888                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS  directed  the committee  to page  5 of the  document,                                                              
which lists  the statutory  changes to the  PCE program  that were                                                              
adopted  in  1999.   In  response  to  Representative  Berkowitz's                                                              
earlier  question,   he  said it  was  projected  that taking  the                                                              
commercial  customers and  schools out  of the  PCE program  would                                                              
save around $2.7  million a year.  As it relates  to schools, that                                                              
is a small  amount.  He indicated  that those hit hardest  by that                                                              
exclusion were  probably the smaller  commercial users.   Reducing                                                              
the  kWh from  700  kWh per  month  to  500 kWh  per  month was  a                                                              
projected savings of $1.6 million.   Reducing the PCE subsidy rate                                                              
from  9.5  cents to  12  cents  gave  a savings  of  roughly  $2.7                                                              
million.  Therefore,  the total projected savings  was $7 million,                                                              
which brought the  PCE program funding close to the  level - $15.7                                                              
million  -  that  the  legislature  actually  appropriated.    The                                                              
recommendation that the Four Dam  Pool amount contributed from the                                                              
Department of Revenue  be increased from 40 percent  to 60 percent                                                              
was accepted.   However, last  year's legislative session  did not                                                              
produce a long-term funding plan for the PCE program.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS  turned to page 6,  which provides an example  of what                                                              
would happen  in a  typical rural  village if  PCE is  eliminated.                                                              
That  example was  based on  the community  of Elam,  which has  a                                                              
population of 281.   With regard to elasticity,  Mr. Simmons found                                                              
that  a  20  percent  decrease  in  consumption  would  result  in                                                              
increased prices and reduced sales.   If that elasticity fell to a                                                              
30 percent decrease, there would  be the likelihood that utilities                                                              
would  become financially  insolvent.   Therefore,  elasticity  is                                                              
very important.   He also pointed  out that the state  and federal                                                              
governments  have  spent  billions   on  infrastructure  in  rural                                                              
Alaska;  therefore, it  is important  to keep  in mind that  there                                                              
could  be  a  negative effect  on  that  infrastructure  with  the                                                              
reduction of PCE.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS continued with page 7,  which discusses what the Rural                                                              
Energy Group  is doing  to reduce  PCE.  He  said Mr. Ritchie  had                                                              
discussed this  [because] most of  the funding for  these programs                                                              
is coming from  the Denali Commission.  The Rural  Energy Group is                                                              
looking  at rural  power system  upgrades.   He  believed that  $8                                                              
million of "our"  budget is being targeted for  rural power system                                                              
upgrades on  a yearly basis.   Although the circuit  rider program                                                              
has  been reduced,  some funding  remains  and has  the effect  of                                                              
reducing the  cost of power  as maintenance and  operator training                                                              
are reviewed.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS pointed  out that the conservation program  is part of                                                              
the Rural  Energy Group.   That  program presents  a dilemma.   In                                                              
many cases when power is conserved,  it may reduce the cost of the                                                              
utility overall  but could  increase the cost  to the  consumer in                                                              
the long run because the fixed costs  still have to be spread over                                                              
a smaller  kWh.  Therefore, conservation  is important, but  it is                                                              
not  the ultimate  solution.   With regard  to alternative  energy                                                              
projects,  they are  important  and should  be  reviewed.   Still,                                                              
alternative  energy  projects  are  a long-term  solution,  not  a                                                              
short-term  solution,  for  PCE.    As of  yet,  no  magic  bullet                                                              
relating   to  alternative   energy  projects   has  been   found.                                                              
Alternative energy projects are capital-intensive projects.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1633                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS moved  on to page 8, which discusses  PCE funding.  He                                                              
informed the committee  that in FY00 the PCE fund  had a beginning                                                              
balance  of approximately  $2.3 million,  a  carryover from  FY99.                                                              
Approximately  $5.5 million  was added  to that  for the Four  Dam                                                              
Pool revenue,  which totals  $7.8 million.   The additional  money                                                              
was supposed to  come from NPR-A.  By the end  of December, all of                                                              
the dollars in the fund had been  obligated to PCE, and thus there                                                              
is no additional  money to be  obligated.  Knowing that  there are                                                              
problems with the  NPR-A funds, the Governor had  requested review                                                              
of a contingency.  To his belief,  Mr. Simmons said the Governor's                                                              
supplemental  budget proposed  using an  additional dividend  from                                                              
AIDEA of roughly  $8 million in order to fund the  rest of PCE for                                                              
FY00.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SIMMONS  mentioned  Government   Accounting  Standards  Board                                                              
(GASB) rule  31, which  says that  all governmental entities  must                                                              
recognize income or  losses on "our" investment at  the end of the                                                              
year,  whether those  are realized  or  not.   Initially, he  told                                                              
members, the  budget was calculated  by trying to ignore  GASB 31,                                                              
which  was how  the  first FY00  dividend  number was  determined.                                                              
After more  study, the decision  was made  not to ignore  GASB 31,                                                              
and  thus  more   money  could  be  put  forth   from  a  dividend                                                              
standpoint.  They  also reviewed the projections  for projects and                                                              
loans  and determined  that they  were behind  for capital  money.                                                              
Therefore,  staff  is recommending  to  the  AIDEA board  that  an                                                              
additional dividend of $8 million  and, as stated, the Governor is                                                              
saying in  his supplemental  budget that money  can go to  PCE for                                                              
FY00.  If  the legislature accepts  that, the PCE program  will be                                                              
fully funded at the $15.7 million level for this year.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS turned to the tougher  issue of long-term funding.  He                                                              
said the Governor had requested that  proposals to fund PCE in the                                                              
long term  be reviewed.   He pointed out  that the right  side [of                                                              
page 8]  lists the long-term  funding options that  were reviewed.                                                              
The Blue  Ribbon Committee has  reviewed federal funds,  and there                                                              
have been discussions with Washington,  D.C., about federal funds.                                                              
He  believed  that Mr.  Ritchie  had  fairly well  summarized  the                                                              
position of Alaska's congressional  delegation in relation to PCE.                                                              
There has  also been review of  pots of money and  their potential                                                              
use for PCE;  however, for every pot of money,  there are probably                                                              
100  constituencies  for  that  money.   Therefore,  there  is  no                                                              
proposal at this time.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1344                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS  directed the committee to  page 9 [and page  10], the                                                              
statewide  energy  plan.    He  explained  that  AIDEA,  the  U.S.                                                              
Department  of  Agriculture  and  the Denali  Commission  began  a                                                              
project  to  redo  the  statewide  energy  plan.    The  plan  was                                                              
separated  into  three  regions:    the  rural  region,  which  is                                                              
basically  the  PCE communities;  the  Railbelt  region, which  is                                                              
Anchorage,  Fairbanks and the  Kenai Peninsula;  and the  Four Dam                                                              
Pool - Juneau and Sitka.  He pointed  out that there could be some                                                              
overlap in the communities.  However, that is being reviewed.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS  noted that the plan  was broken up into  three places                                                              
and two  phases.  Phase  1, completed  in October 1999,  basically                                                              
attempted  to accumulate  some  background  and  inventory of  the                                                              
system, identify  the major energy  problems and issues,  and list                                                              
all the possible solutions.  He specified  that Phase 1 was not to                                                              
start all  over, but rather to  take all the information  from the                                                              
last  10  or  20 years  and  summarize  that  information  in  one                                                              
document.   Furthermore, Phase 1  was not intended to  promote one                                                              
solution over  another, nor to  throw out any potential  solutions                                                              
or problems.  Those documents were  created; the rural document is                                                              
public information.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS said  Phase 2 is really the energy plan.   Under Phase                                                              
2, they  had worked with the  stakeholders in the  communities and                                                              
attempted  to narrow  the  issues  with the  potential  solutions.                                                              
They  had attempted  to put  forward policies  as well  as a  plan                                                              
regarding how  to implement  that policy.   He explained  that the                                                              
rural  areas  would be  tackled  first,  which  is a  12-18  month                                                              
project, followed by  Southeast Alaska and then the  Railbelt.  He                                                              
explained that the  Railbelt/Southeast pieces of Phase  1 have not                                                              
been released because discussion  with stakeholders in those areas                                                              
have revealed that there may be changes.   Thus there is no reason                                                              
to  make  a document  available  because  it  may be  moot  later.                                                              
Therefore,  an internal call  has been  made to  put those  on the                                                              
shelf.  When nearing Phase 2 for  those regions, then those "Phase                                                              
1s" will come off the shelf.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SIMMONS said  for  the rural  areas,  the  various levels  of                                                              
management,  maintenance and  operation affect  the cost  of power                                                              
and reliability.   He noted  that the management,  maintenance and                                                              
operations piece  has already  started and is  led by USDA.   With                                                              
regard  to the high  cost of  liability, a  request for  proposals                                                              
(RFP) is being  prepared.  He was  hopeful that in July  or August                                                              
there  would be  information regarding  the capital  needs on  the                                                              
rural power system upgrades.  The  remainder of the plan for rural                                                              
energy will probably be completed  in the next six to eight months                                                              
after that.   In conclusion, Mr. Simmons pointed  out that page 12                                                              
addressed the rural cost reduction options.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HUDSON  commented that  the development  of this  plan is                                                              
only ten years late.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1032                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN asked about  the sale of  the Four  Dam Pool                                                              
under this conceptual plan.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SIMMONS  informed  the  committee  that  the  utilities  have                                                              
offered a  two-pronged sales  price.   The utilities have  offered                                                              
$60 million in cash  today and a $10 million "kicker"  that may be                                                              
available 20 years out, based on  certain assumptions.  Of course,                                                              
the value of that $10 million is  substantially less in the future                                                              
than it is  today.  He pointed  out that if there was  a cash sale                                                              
today of  the utilities, the state  holds a $14  million insurance                                                              
fund.   If  these projects  were sold  to the  utilities and  that                                                              
state got  out of the risk  completely, that $14 million  could be                                                              
made  available.   Therefore,  the sales  to  the utilities  would                                                              
roughly result in $74 million.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  clarified  that  he was  referring  to  the                                                              
future of PCE  with that portion -  the Four Dam Pool  - being out                                                              
of the mix.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SIMMONS  reiterated that there  is a great short-term  plan to                                                              
fund PCE,  which will  last about  five years,  after which  there                                                              
will be no money.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  HUDSON made  announcements  about future  meetings.   He                                                              
then  discussed  PCE  as a  subsidy  in  rural  Alaska.   He  also                                                              
expressed  the need  to review  options such  as fuel  cells.   He                                                              
discussed his vision of having a  company such as General Electric                                                              
manufacturing fuel cells in the Matanuska-Susitna  Valley in order                                                              
to  be a  test  bed.   Discussions  with fuel  cell  manufacturers                                                              
indicate that the highest cost is  the cost of the fuel, he noted.                                                              
Chairman  Hudson hoped  that  Alaska  would not  just  sit on  its                                                              
laurels but would  actively find alternatives.  He  thanked all of                                                              
the participants.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further business  before the committee,  the House                                                              
Special Committee  on Utility Restructuring meeting  was adjourned                                                              
at 9:35 a.m.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                

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